No "Pro Multis" Here
As it's been asked, I will confirm that the most recent drafts coming from ICEL state at the consecration of the wine "for you and for all."
"And for the many" is nowhere to be found.
I remember that EWTN once tried to toy with the liturgy and use "and for the many" in English -- a Big No-No that went down in 1994. As often happened with the Alabamans, Rome went berserk and clamped down immediately.
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"And for the many" is nowhere to be found.
I remember that EWTN once tried to toy with the liturgy and use "and for the many" in English -- a Big No-No that went down in 1994. As often happened with the Alabamans, Rome went berserk and clamped down immediately.
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posted by Rocco Palmo at 20:59
4 Comments:
"I understand that final decisions on translations of the consecratory formula are reserved to the Holy Father himself."
Thank God for that!!!
From an accuracy standpoint, I would like the canon to say "for many" but it's not one of my pet-peeves in the liturgy (of which there are many!) The only downside is that if we go back to that in the English, Rome will have to clarify in a footnote somewhere that this change doesn't invalidate all masses for the last 30 years as I am sure some radtrad will argue.
"AND STILL "THE MASS" REMAINS INVALID!
"When will you sheep learn?"
When we listen to the Church, and not to every twit with delusions of grandeur. (By the way, who you callin' a sheep, pal?)
Critical Mass: Lost (and Found) in Translation
George, with respect, if "for all" were the better translation, wouldn't you expect some translators of the New Testament to render Jesus' words that way? I invite you to look up Matthew 26:28 and Mark 14:24 in as many English translations as you like. Our Lord is consistently recorded as having said that He would (or He does) shed His blood "for many".
Richard, while Latin lacks a definite article, Greek has one, and it does not appear in Matthew 26:28 or Mark 14:24. If you don't mind using a Protestant web site and a Protestant version of the Bible, you can compare the Greek and English side by side here:
Matthew 26:28
http://www.sacrednamebible.com/kjvstrongs/B40C026.htm#V28
Mark 14:24
http://www.sacrednamebible.com/kjvstrongs/B41C014.htm#V24
In contrast, here is a verse where the underlying Greek really does have the phrase "the many":
Romans 5:19
http://www.sacrednamebible.com/kjvstrongs/B45C005.htm#V19
There is very little justification for rendering "pro multis" in Latin and "peri pollwn" in Greek as "for all" or even "for the many". They simply mean "for many".
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