Tuesday, September 27, 2005

Ecce, Literal Translation... Ecce, Qui Tollit Peccata Mundi...

More from the latest ICEL revisions.... These are September, 2005 drafts, people -- that's this month.
Behold the Lamb of God,
behold him who takes away the sins of the world.
Blessed are they who have been called to the banquet of the Lamb.

Lord, I am not worthy that you should come under my roof,
but only say the word,
and my soul shall be healed.


Blogger Todd said...

The new translation makes the link to Matthew 8:5ff and Luke 7:1ff more clear. I once heard this passage preached not as an example of faith, but as a missed opportunity for a closer or more intimate encounter with the Lord.

27/9/05 12:16  
Blogger pazdziernik said...

The parishioners in many places already say "my soul shall be healed" instead of "I shall be healed." Its about 40%/60% (soul/I)in my current parish. Is this because of the EWTN televised masses?

27/9/05 12:38  
Blogger Jeff said...

"The banquet of the Lamb."

Ah, beautiful. Does anyone remember "The Voyage of the Dawn Treader"? When they reach the Edge of the World? "'Come and have dinner,' said the Lamb."

More scripture, more vocabulary--more Catechesis. Good job Fr. Harbert and the rest!

27/9/05 13:21  
Blogger Talmida said...

I just hope this trend of accurate translation continues. I'm really looking forward to praying,

Hosanna, Lord God of Armies!

I will be very disappointed if they wimp out with "hosts" again.


27/9/05 13:46  
Blogger patrick said...

Hurrah! Hurrah! Yesssss!

This is what we said three times in the old Anglican Missal:

Priest: O Lord, I am not worthy that thou shouldest come under my roof (ring sanctus bell)

People: But speak the world only, and my soul shall be healed.

27/9/05 13:49  
Blogger theobservationalist said...

The comments aren't what you'd hope for, are they Rocco?

The problem that liberal, homosexual Catholics like you have with accurate translations of the liturgical texts is that they reveal to you that you don't beleive the Catholic Faith.

Will you be able to worship in a church that refers to "the soul," or the "holiness" of the church, or sundry other supernatural realities that the apostate generation, whose agenda you worship in place of Christ, tried to erase from our hearts with their ideological translation of the Mass?

27/9/05 14:17  
Blogger Samoht415 said...

If you can find a copy of the provisional English text of the Mass from prior to 1970, texts which were used in at least my home diocese from 1964/5 to 1970, you will see that the proposed translations are not very new at all. They bring to mind my memories of learning the texts of the Mass in 1st grade Catholic school in 1968-1969, and then having to re-learn the current texts all over again in 1969-1970!

So for example, the proposed 'new' translation is close to what I first learned in 1968 (and see People's Mass book #253 1984 edition for the 'old' English translation as proof that it already existed!)

The confiteor was more 'elaborate', the Kyrie had 9 invocations (e.g., Lord have Mercy, Lord have mercy, Lord have mercy, Christ have mercy, Christ have mercy, Christ have mercy, etc...)

The creed included "visible and invisible" (not all things 'unseen' are invisible, right?)

The Holy, Holy, included "Lord God of Hosts."

The prayer before communion was "O Lord I am not worhty that thou shouldst come under my roof, speak but the word and my sould shall be healed."

It looks to me as if the proposed translations are only returning to what were once called the provisional translations of the mid-1960's, for which I will be grateful...

I cannot comment on the other prayers of the Mass, because I do not have a provisional sacramentary, but I do recall as a child hearing the word "beseech Thee" used often enough...

27/9/05 14:31  
Blogger Andrew said...

What's with the post from theobservationalist? Is he Rocco's malevolent alter ego? How else to account for the fact that he thinks he knows all about his thoughts, preferences, expectations, etc.? The post sounds awfully bitchy in a campy sort of way.

27/9/05 14:32  
Blogger Jimmy Mac said...

Oh, Andrew .... tsk, tsk, tsk.

Only the obfuscationalist can be nasty here! After all, he KNOWS that Rocco is a queer/faggot/ho-m-SEX-youall/fairy/pansy/sodomite ... doncha know?

27/9/05 14:37  
Blogger Gotpraecht said...

The creed included "visible and invisible" (not all things 'unseen' are invisible, right?)

Yes. That's quite a reasonable observation, though I'm not convinced it's significant in Latin.

You're also assuming that visibilis can be straightforwardly translated as

It probably can, but when Tertullian uses invisus (unseen) and invisibilis (invisible) of Christ's divine nature, he uses them as synonyms (see Adversus Praxean)

So I can't really see what benefit we get from interference with a text that has already put down deep roots in English speaking parishes.

27/9/05 15:22  
Blogger Barry Manilow said...

You know, I wrote a song years ago that people with The Observationalist's personality always shriek for at my revival shows.

Goes like this:

"Her name was Lola,
She was a showgirl,
But that was thirty years ago,
When there used to be a show,
Now it's a disco,
But not for Lola,
Still in that dress she used to wear,
Faded feathers in her hair,
She sits there so refined
And drinks herself half blind,
She lost her youth
And she lost her Tony,
Now she's lost her mind . . . "

Can't you picture the big girl, sitting at his computer, gay porn websites or probably kiddie porn sites carefully hidden, his day dreams and other kinds of dreams haunted by images of the Unattainable Rocco, a tragic bitter queen with all the right, RIGHT-WING that is, words and all the wrong heart?

27/9/05 15:49  
Blogger patrick said...

Ok, this thread has officially gone off the deep end.

27/9/05 16:41  
Blogger Dom Dominic said...


I love that song!
That and the Dr. Pepper jingle may have been your two best works.
Who could have ever imagined that I would run into you here, of all places!

Patrick, sometimes the deep end is a good place to be, especially in this shallow, humanistic world.

27/9/05 17:51  
Blogger Barry Manilow said...

Patrick, you apparently missed it, but this thread went off the deep end when Her Majesty, TheObservationalist, Bitch Queen I, decided to share her wet dreams about Rocco with us.

That's when it went off the deep end. I merely pointed out that the levee of his personal fantasies had been breached, leaving Rocco and the rest of us awash. Well, best not to push the analogy too far perhaps.

Whenever there's an angry Lola in the Bloghaus, things are bound to get like "the Copa, Copa Cabana, the hottest spot north of Havana," where "music and passion were always the fashion," as our dear Dom Dominic recalled (from his days "in the world" I am sure).

27/9/05 21:26  
Blogger Marco, Trumphalistic Papist said...

Oh good Lord, this thread has turned insane. You people need to get out more often, the fresh air will do you all (pro multis?) good. End these language wars and return to Latin for the entire Mass except the readings. To hell with the vernacular, follow Vatican II, back to Latin!

27/9/05 23:11  

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