Thursday, August 25, 2005

When Vanity Trumps Charity

For the life of me, I still cannot understand why people hate this man as they do....
Popule meus, quid feci tibi?
Aut in quo contristavi te? Responde mihi!
Quid ultra debui facere tibi, et non feci?
Ego eduxi te de Virgilio Noe,
et tu me tradidisti bloggeribus traditionalibus.



Blogger Gyrovagus said...

Nobody should consider himself competent to say anything negative about Archbishop Piero Marini unless and until purchasing the four books that will surely be this man's lasting legacy (and carefully stating all of the violations of liturgical and canon law, deviations from orthodoxy, outright sacrileges, and simple violations of good taste contained therein):

SEDE APOSTOLICA VACANTE: Storia, Legislazione, Riti, Luoghi e Cose (Publication: 2005)


(Approved by a Rescript "ex Audientia Summi Pontificis", John Paul II, 5 February 1998. Issued from the Office of Liturgical Celebrations of the Supreme Pontiff, 25 March 1998. Stated publication date: 2000)


(Approved by a Rescript "ex Audientia Summi Pontificis", John Paul II, 5 February 1998. Issued from the Office of Liturgical Celebrations of the Supreme Pontiff, 25 March 1998. Stated publication date: 2000)

and the FIRST liturgical book approved by the new Pope:


"Hunc novum Ordinem Benedictus PP. XVI, in Audientia infrascripto Magistro concessa, Auctoritate Sua Apostolica die 20 Aprilis 2005 approbavit et publici iuris fieri iussit." (Publication date: 20 April 2005).

On the day the new Pope took possession of St. John Lateran, in the visit to Saint Mary Major which followed, at one point, before the high altar, the person holding the microphone for the Pope had the microphone too low (it was getting late, and the Pope's already soft voice was getting softer by the syllable).

Marini, standing on the other side of the Pope from the server, simply moved one hand from his pectoral cross to his lips, index finger extended. The server INSTANTLY raised the microphone to a more suitable height. I only saw that because I used to be an MC: it was completely unobtrusive.

Compare that to the multiple MCs at a Cathedral not far from here, falling all over each other, klutzing around the sanctuary, running back and forth from the sacristy, fussing with books, mitres, croziers, sheafs of papers, and God-only-knows-what-else, all the while chattering away in more huddles than the Patriots need to get through a Sunday football game.

After Bugnini died, Marini was the only target on which to pin all the free-floating anger about the "Novus Ordo" (actually, Bugnini has to be the runner up to Pope Formosus for corpses put on trial and found guilty), and guaranteed, when the new MC is appointed, even if he's the Most Rev. Jesus H. Christ, D.D., they'll be after him too - unless, of course, he brings back the tiara, sedia, and those dead ostriches, to prove that their hopes for this new Pontificate's liturgical style were not utterly in vain!

25/8/05 18:03  
Blogger John Hearn said...

But Gyrovagus, has any of this criticism shaken or stirred him?

25/8/05 19:46  
Blogger John Bianco said...

Simpily put, many people dont care for him because of the role he played in making papal masses into a circus like event. That said, I am a firm believer in "The buck stops here" mentality, and if Pope John Paul II didnt want papal masses to have that atmosphere, it would not have happened. That said, the mans approach to liturgy seems to tend towrds the novelties as an end to themselves.

25/8/05 20:34  
Blogger Gyrovagus said...

To John Bianco:

You began, "Simply put," and from what I've read over the years about Marini, the criticisms are always "simply put" but with a broad brush. So, could you go a little bit deeper than "simply put" - in fairness to the man at least?

For example, you wrote:

many people dont care for him (Marini) because of the role he played in making papal masses into a circus like event

- Who are those people?

- What role, specifically, did Marini play in "making papal masses into a circus like event?

- Which papal masses do you refer to as "circus-like" events?

- Which elements in those masses were "circus-like"?

You wrote:

"the man's (Marini's) approach to liturgy seems to tend towards the novelties as an end to themselves."

- Which novelties, specifically, did you see Marini introducing into the liturgy?

- How were they an "end in themselves"?

- Was there any "means" involved in their choice?


Having read over the Praenotanda which Marini prepared (or under whose supervision they were prepared) for the three "BOOKS OF APRIL" noted above, and the historical, theological, liturgical research contained in the fourth book, SEDE APOSTOLICA VACANTE, which elements of novelty did you find in any of those works and were those novel elements balanced by any traditional elements?

25/8/05 21:39  
Blogger John Bianco said...

As I said, I do not care, and many others who are inclined towrds a more traditional approach(though not tridentine per say) in liturgy. To name names of people who do not care for his approach would probably require a half dozen posts alone. I am not into playing semantic games.

As for Papal masses becoming circus like events, the ones at the Vatican have usually maintained their solem nature, it was the ones on the road that included very excessive amounts of inculturation that could/have led people to be confused about what the mass is about, even confuses people about what the church stands for, having music during the mass that takes away from the mass(and yes, I will be the first to agree that high masses with a full on orchestra also have the same problem in the other direction), liturgical danceing in countries where its not part of the culture such as Australia in the early 90s for example. All and all making such celbrations more about the event themselves rather than the mass. The rank and file laity are confused enough as it is, and sadly, such excessive inculturation only creates more confusion.

Again, if Pope John Paul II didnt really want these elements, they would not have been present, but from the interviews I read(and no, it wasnot commentary on him), I do not care for Marinis approach on the liturgy.

25/8/05 22:44  
Blogger Jeff said...

Well, I DON'T claim to know if it was Marini who was responsible for it; I think well of Marini in general; I LOVED the Funeral and the Inauguration Masses including them music, buuut....

though it was rather sweet, isn't juggling hats during the liturgy "circus like"?

Clearly some liturgy is more theatrical and oriented toward entertainment than other liturgy. I don't know that that's always bad, but surely music with rock-band type drums, flashing lights, lots of colorful and unusual 'events' is liturgy that could be described as "circus-like", i.e, cool-neat stuff, showy and entertaining.

As opposed to what? Calmness, quiet, ordinary things, familiar prayers and familiar events, oriented more toward reflection, some might say, "boring."

Let's not pretend we don't know what we're talking about here. Sometimes I think it's okay, sometimes I don't. If you're going to do that stuff, JPII did it as well as possible. Was Marini responsible, or just carrying out orders? Or was it the local churches at Papal Events that were responsible and should be praised/blamed? THOSE THINGS I don't know and it's worth discussing them. But any fool can point to the elements in Cologne that probably bug Mr. Bianco and others.

25/8/05 23:13  
Blogger the Savage said...

I'm sure he's a pleasant enough man, but would somebody tell me what juggling hats has to do with Eucharistic adoration?

26/8/05 16:09  

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